N_Reparaties - N_Repairs (20.07.2010 )


Problem: N Electrical Equipment Temperature Sender

In fact the problem was only that Luc, while reassembling his Sabra didn't find his temperature sender anymore.

While looking up the temperature sender in manual and alternative parts list I noticed that no one had ever documented the thing.
In my Sabra I found on the temperature sender the engraving: TT 3802/00. On my spare engine (Ford Consul) the sender was engraved TT 3801/00.
The "TT" stands for "Temperature Transmitter" I learned.
Thousands of temperature senders on Ebay, as usual for all marques and types but not for the Sabra. In the end I decided to order some and test and check until I found one that would fit and that would communicate correctly with the Smiths gauge in the Sabra. I was lucky here to order them with:

RUSTY BUCKETS
IAN SCATTERGOOD
GINN STABLES LOWER MOOR ROAD
COLEORTON
COALVILLE, Leicestershire LE67 8FL United Kingdom

As he heard which car it was for, he cancelled my order and suggested other ones, which I bought.
The ones I received had an UNF 5/8 thread with 18 tpi like the one in my Sabra and the Consul. They fitted.
Connected the thread to the ground of my Sabra and the sending contact to the gauge (over the Voltage regulator).
Disconnected the primary of the coil(to avoid problems), hung the sender in a glass of cooling fluid and checked the readings at different temperatures.
Also checked this way the (not defective) temperature transmitter in my Sabras engine.
Now the gauge is terribly slow, seems much slower than the fuel gauge. In the end I boiled the cooling fluid (102-103°C - no pressure on it in the glass) and measured (frequently tapping on the gauge) the temperature when it passed the fixed markings in the gauge while cooling down.
Quite precise, though the three different senders gave slightly different values:

gauge showing 100 ((esteemed between 90 and 110) temp was 102°C
gauge showing 90 temp was at 88°C
gauge showing 70 temp was at 75°C.

At ambient temperature(25°C ??) the senders showed a resistance of some 750 Ohms.
The TT3801 has a resistance of about 1500 Ohms.

Might want to redo the test over a 7810-driven Voltage regulator (might be more precise) but in the end it showed that the temperature measurement of the Sabra was quite precise so I shouldn't (have had to) worry about high temperatures not knowing how precise the gauge was.
In fact I put the old sender (transmitter) back into the Sabra engine as the new ones weren't really better.

Jacques has done some research: says recent ordering number is GTR 104. Used in Mini and TR4(Triumph number 131062).
It should have a RED insulator. Minis before 1964 except some super deluxe and pre Sept 1964 cooper s used GTR102. After 1969 use GTR101.

Not checked: but this might be a correct conversion table:
Smiths TT3802/00 = Delco SU6 = Intermotor 52710 = Lucas SNB102 = Unipart GTR104


Probleem: N Electrical Equipment Wiring from loom (frame) to front lights

Shows one can't keep on repairing the repairs.

 oudnieuw
Geoff provided me with the wiring from loom till front lights - in the correct colour.
As I hadn't dismantled the lights before ordering the wires, Geoff put the three-pin connector on the one for the headlights and didn't put connectors on the wires for the parking-flash-lights (I presumed they were soldered). Shows that for my Sabra (ST 4878) he could have put bullit connectors on both sides of every wire, but that should be checked for every individual car. Best length of both wires is some 80cm.
Jef Neefs


Probleem: N Electrical Equipment Wiper motor not Parking

Just repaired the wiper motor of the Sabra. It worked well in both speeds for a (short) while after rebuilt, then suddenly did not park any more.
all wires checked and Ok
Finally shorted the brown wire ( where it takes earth for parking) that goes from the little park switch directly to the housing of the wiper assembly and ... it parked again.
After more investigation it became clear that the little copper plate that is mechanically fastened (like riveted)  to the little plate were the brown wire is soldered on, did not make enough contact !!!
I put a point of solder on it, so that it is soldered to the metal plate with the brown wire , instead of just a mechanical connection and everything works perfectly now.

Just anything can happen with those wiper motors ,but they are always repairable, so it seems.
Thanks Jacques

Probleem: N Electrical Equipment Benzinemeter-Thermometer

Al een hele tijd problemen met de indicaties van de thermometer en de benzinemeter.  Nu moet je bij alle auto's leren "Hoe leeg is leeg? en Hoe heet is heet? voor de thermometer maar bij de Sabra moest je je dan ook nog herinneren hoevele toeren de motor draaide de laatste minuten en hoeveel electriciteitsverbruikers p stonden de laatste minuten.

Geleerd (zie electrisch schema pagina N13); er is een afzonderlijke voltage regulator voor de waterthermometer en de benzinemeter.  Dat ding was dus duidelijk stuk. Binnengegeven bij een garagist die voor een nieuw zou zorgen... de man slaagde er in het origineel te verliezen...

De Voltage regulator heeft als bedoeling deze twee circuits op een lagere spanning te laten werken (10V)...daardoor wordt de aanduiding van de twee meters onafhankelijk(er) van de spanning op het electrisch systeem... 13,5V wanneer de dynamo bijlaadt...11,5V als de dynamo niet bijlaadt en er toch stroom moet geleverd worden door de batterij.
De Voltage regulator is standaard eigenlijk een bimetaal gestuurd apparaat dat bij hogere stroomsterkte (-spanning) eventjes uitschakelt en dan terug aanschakelt.  Als je met een klassieke voltmeter de outputspanning meet dan gaat de naald permanent van 2V naar 11V.  Verhoog je de spanning van de batterij (batterij-lader) dan gaat de naald van de Voltmeter heviger op en neer.
De naalden van de thermometer en benzinemeter bewegen te traag om deze snelle spanningswisselingen te volgen en stellen zich in op een gemiddelde waarde, bepaald door de stand van de benzinevlotter en de gemiddelde spanning over hun systeem (iets lager dus dan de 12V).

Oplossing... niet 100% maar stukken beter:

De originele voltage-regulator zit onder het dashbord achter de thermometer bovenaan tegen de verstevigingsrib geschroefd.
Heeft buiten een massa-verbinding, vier contactjes...(twee aan twee aan elkaar verbonden), twee donkergroene leveren spanning, twee lichter-groene gaan naar de meters, stroom loopt door de meters naar de "sensoren-zenders" en naar de massa.

Years I've been having problems with them.

See electrical scheme: these two gauges have a separate Voltage regulator because if they would get the normal working voltage they would indicate different values with idelling engine (12V) or engine running at higher RPM's (14,xxV).

This Voltage regulator didn't work properly on my Sabra.  I really found out recently.  Although it was obvious that engine speed influenced the gauges severely.

When the temperature gauge was getting higher than I liked, I allways did like everybody: switch on the heater fan to provide extra cooling.
It allways made the temperature drop by +/-5 degrees.  Now long ago the heater valve didn't shut off properly so I was always getting heated air in from the heater system but after the valve was fixed with the heater valve closed I got cold air inside the cabine - fine.

But then I noticed that when I put on the heater fan ! even when the heater valve was closed ! temperature gauge dropped 5C.
So it dropped because voltage had dropped, not because I provided extra cooling.

So I bought a new?? Voltage regulator, didn't cure the problem.
So I swapped to the above mentioned system, was working better but trimming was difficult, this thing was not devellopped for cars, I reckon I had to use a fixed resistor and in series with it a much smaller adjustible resistor, the fixed taking care of 9V and the adjustible resistor taking care of whatever between 9-11V.

Anyway: bought a new Voltage regulator with Carwise.  Readings where independent of the engine RPM now, but much too low: i.e.just after refuelling the gauge showed half-full (half empty for pessimists) and temperature never rose beyond 70C though my themostate only opens at 82C.  My last otter switch switches on at 92 and it was ON several times when the gauge showed 70C

Then I noticed that the Voltage regulator has an adjusting screw on it.  The regulator works with a bimetal so when starting the gauges go too high (bimetal has to warm up) but now (having turned the regulator-screw one turn to the right) temperature reads constant 78 in normal driving conditions and fuel is over 3/4 when full. So I guess turning right a little further would get the temperature to a guessed 85 and fuel tank to full when full.

Will have to find-out where on the fuel-gauge is "empty" (guess it will be sllightly above 0) but temperature is more important.

The Voltage-regulator works in a long-time-ago-way by switching off tension when the bimetal is warm enough and switching on after the bimetal has cooled so it must be influenced by the ambient temperature and by total current consumption (full fuel tank will give lower temperatures) but quite precise will be good enough for a Sabra I guess). The gauges are too slow to follow the rather fast voltage switching (recent digital Voltage meters have also problems... they show 4V or 10V.  On older analogue meters you see the voltage needle go up to over 12 and drop to zero.


N8 Ignition

Ignition coil:

When putting my Sabra back on the road in 2000; though the engine ran (in my garage) normally I decided to replace all of the ignition system, just in case.  So replaced sparking plugs, wires, contactpoints, condensator, coil.  What I didn't know is that coils had changed over the years: nowadays coils expect 9V under normal working conditions, the Sabras original coil expected (and got) 12V (and in the shop I just asked for "a coil").
The new coil got 3Volts more than it expected and eventually got warm and stopped working - untill it had cooled down.
At the beginning I could drive for an hour without problems but after a while (the heating didn't do no good to the coil) it broke down after a shorter period of driving - certainly in hot weather and at high speed.

As I doubted the fuel tanks, fuel lead, fuel pump, fuel filter, floaters, carburettors I used to carry a pump to blow bike-tubes and every time the engine stopped I disconnected the fuel leads and blew them through direction carburettors and direction fuel tank.  This used to take some 15 minutes and afterwards I could drive again for some time (the 15 minutes were enough for the coil to cool down).

A lended 12V coil made the car run wonderfully and learned me that there's the two (above mentioned) types of coils.

A 12V coil worked fine, as did the 9V with a "ballast"-resitance in series with it.
Later I switched to the 9V coil thinking it was an improvement against the 12V because it would consume less power from the dynamo.
As there's no lead to control the ballast-relay on the starter engine I added a relay that shortcuts the resistor when the starter engine gets power.
So while starting the coil gets 12V, once the engine runs the coil gets its proper 9V.  As the starter solenoid is close to battery and coil this wasn't a great job to do.


N8 Ignition (Electronic)

Not that I had problems with my ignition anymore but a friend advised me to buy the pertronics electronic ignition.  He advised me to take Ignitor II as Ignitor I can't stand it if you forget to switch off ignition.  On a fair I learned that the pertronics II wasn't made for Sabra-like distributors and would never be made by lack of space in positive earth cars.  So I was persuaded to buy an Ignitor I type LU-142AP12.

The car drove properly, with the new ignition mounted as it came.

I notice no difference except for the fact that I won't ever have to replace my contact-points again.

Replacing contact-points and condensator with the ignitor was simple and straightforward.  Only problem is that in the Sabra-handbook the description of the timing-trimming is based on the opening of the contact-points.  To be certain the timing is correct you need a stroboscope with the ignitor, but that's a once-and-never-again-procedure.  I lended a stroboscope and put the advantage to +/- 7.


N8 Ignition (Electronic)
Ook de electronische ontsteking gemonteerd en deze doet het zeer goed. Ik heb wel ook een andere bobijn geplaatst (hoger rendement en heb nu grotere vonken op de bougies)
Het merk is Multic Magnetic en van Franse makelij. Werkt met een draaiend schijfje met vier magneetjes. De extra regeling van de voorontsteking via het membraantje is niet meer aangesloten en het werkt prima. De fabrikant is Delmotte 28 Hauts Champs (BP 12) 62137 Coulogne Frankrijk tel 0033 321 979 895 fax 0033 321 963 703
www.del.Opi.com   Kan misschien interessant zijn om op de site te zette
De kit is kompleet, zelfs ontstoord voor de radio en electronisch beveiligd


N Wiring diagram colours

Geoff Cooper spent quite some time making this exell, it shows - in colour the standard colours of the wiring used in most cars with Lucas components.

Need exell to open it. Thanks Geoff


N Distributor - cleaning up

Nice link


Mail of bel mij als je tips, hints of kennis op dit gebied hebt... 03/236.00.84

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